#1: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: erick3.14, Location: BrazilPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:17 pm ---- is there any "how-to" get the RPM signal coming from the ignition coils in the EW10J4 / GTI 138 ?
I want to install a separate RPM/tachometer and need to get the signal to feed the tachometer.
I could get the rpm signal coming directly from the engine speed sensor. however the signal is too hi frequency. Eventhough my tacho is programable, when the engine was 950rpm , the tacho was showing 7900rpm...
I believe I need to take the rpm/tacho signal from the coils.
But didn't find how to do that.
Can anyone help?
#2: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: erick3.14, Location: BrazilPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:35 am ---- just to update:
I tried to get the COIL signal coming from the ECU pins . I tried at the coil connector on top of engine (see picture), but there is no way to hook a wire over there. It is sealed. I guess because of high voltage/current. I didn't want to cut any wire before be sure it is there.
Here is the dash I plan to build: tacho + speedo. Speedo is working. Rev counter is the issue.
Original:
With tacho+speedo:
Here is the Servicebox diagram for the coil section:
Here is the rev counter installation instructions.
Anyone has any idea or suggestion?
Is that plug on top of engine where I should cut/unwrap the lead to get the coil signal?
#3: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: Chill, Location: LatviaPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:56 am ---- I have the same problem, but I have 1.9l diesel engine, when I bought it, it had broken speedo, I changed ir to a speedo with tacho, but tacho is not workong, is there some wire diagramm, that shows how can I make tacho work?
#4: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: erick3.14, Location: BrazilPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:48 am ----
Chill wrote:
I have the same problem, but I have 1.9l diesel engine, when I bought it, it had broken speedo, I changed ir to a speedo with tacho, but tacho is not workong, is there some wire diagramm, that shows how can I make tacho work?
If someone can help me or you, I believe it will be the same way or similar.
I guess I will need to open the coilpack to get the signal from there...
#5: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:53 am ---- What engine ecu does the car have fitted?
Make & type please.
Remember is a wasted spark system so the coil fires on the compression & also on the exhaust stroke! Last edited by MrBSI on Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total
#6: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:54 am ----
Chill wrote:
I have the same problem, but I have 1.9l diesel engine, when I bought it, it had broken speedo, I changed ir to a speedo with tacho, but tacho is not workong, is there some wire diagramm, that shows how can I make tacho work?
I think the tacho on this one runs from the crank / flywheel sensor.
#7: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: Chill, Location: LatviaPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:22 pm ----
MrBSI wrote:
Chill wrote:
I have the same problem, but I have 1.9l diesel engine, when I bought it, it had broken speedo, I changed ir to a speedo with tacho, but tacho is not workong, is there some wire diagramm, that shows how can I make tacho work?
I think the tacho on this one runs from the crank / flywheel sensor.
Some diesels gets tacho info from alternator, but without wire diagrams I don't think I can devise how to wire it up
#8: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: MrBSI, Location: What's it to you? ? ?Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:24 pm ---- I dont have a wiring diagram for it but someone on here must be able to get there hands on it.
Stick a wanted thread up on the forum asking for a wiring diagram.
#9: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:27 pm ---- 2.0GTi
1.9D
#10: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: Chill, Location: LatviaPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:49 pm ---- Thanks a lot
#11: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: Edward, Location: In the garagePosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:30 am ---- Just noticed that engine has 2 EGR type systems. It has the big air bleed valve and also the plastic looking type that's fitted to the GTi 180. It looks like it's blanked off though.
#12: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: erick3.14, Location: BrazilPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:14 pm ----
MrBSI wrote:
What engine ecu does the car have fitted?
Make & type please.
Remember is a wasted spark system so the coil fires on the compression & also on the exhaust stroke!
Make & type please.
Remember is a wasted spark system so the coil fires on the compression & also on the exhaust stroke![/quote]
The ECU in my case is a Magnetti Marelli which came from a 307 2.0 16v SW. The diagrams that I have here for the 307 are the same as the one that Lee posted. I believe it is same as the regular GTI. Where can I find the type for it? It is installed in my car and I can't see any number or ID... maybe I should remove it to find out.
At least if I have a clue on GTI connection/wiring, I can find in my car with my diagrams
#13: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: erick3.14, Location: BrazilPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:31 pm ----
Lee wrote:
2.0GTi
1.9D
Lee,
thanks for the diagrams and information. Sorry to ask, which software is that? I use the ServiceBox/Sedre to get the diagrams and is very similar to that, but mine doesn't give the ECU connector detailed as yours...
As mentioned before, my ECU is a Magnetti Marelli from a 307 2.0 16v SW . The diagram is same as yours.
I tried to get the signal from 2 different places:
- directly from the ENGINE SPEED SENSOR, which goes to the cable identified as 2V NR (sensor #1313) as shown in your picture for the engine overview and highlighted as blue. However when I get signal from that point, my REV COUNTER shows to high information. Maybe because that sensor has as many pulses as each different crank position/sensor. So in that case, no matter I adjust my REV COUNTER to 0.5 pulse/rev or up to 6 pulse/rev, I get around 7800rpm when engine is in fact running at 950rpm. In this case I got the signal from the ECU side directly on cable 32V GR, pins B2 or B1.
- My REV COUNTER manual says to get the pulse from the negative side of the coil. I tried to go them to the coil pack sensor/harness. I tried to connected to cable on the coil connector, but it is a sealed connector, so could not get a proper contact. I them tried in the ECU cable 48V MR into connector with Pins L3, M3, but I could not get a signal. I was wondering if this section of the ECU which sends signal to the coild would be hi-voltage or not. So I didn't strip the wire to get a signal, because I didn't have a insulating tape to seal it back again.
Should I try the ECU signal for the coil pack in that case?
#14: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: Lee, Location: EnglandPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:38 pm ---- The 307 uses CAN-CAN or CAN-VAN so maybe the thing you have bought isn't suitable3 to those electrical systems?
#15: Re: How to get RPM signal in the GTI 138? Author: erick3.14, Location: BrazilPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:11 pm ----
Lee wrote:
The 307 uses CAN-CAN or CAN-VAN so maybe the thing you have bought isn't suitable3 to those electrical systems?
Lee,
the donor 307 was a CAN-VAN model.
The diagrams that I have for the CAN-VAN version is same as the diagrams you sent.
The diagram section that you sent, is directly the engine speed sensor. The REV Counter that I have here says to install and connect to the coilpack , not directly to the engine speed sensor.
Within 4 or 5 days I will be back at home and will definitely strip the wirings going to the coilpack and check if it will work properly or not...
Since the wiring going to the engine speed sensor didn't work fine, I believe in 2 things:
- the engine speed sensor has high revolution frequency , and maybe my REV counter count show the proper rpm. Usually this kind of signal needs to be filtered and processed as a pulse. So I expect that it may be the wrong connecting point.
- the installation manual says to connect to the ignition coil . So I expect to make it work fine doing that...
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