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Forums › The Car › 206 Problems › Battery Discharging Problem


 
 

Battery Discharging Problem
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nelson1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:38 pm Up
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Newbie here. I have read other related topics (maybe not all).
I bought a 52 Plate 206 1.4 petrol for my kids to learn to drive in.
I am an electronics engineer, so I have all the meters and scopes and stuff.
The battery kept going flat. I checked the charging circuit, no problems so replaced the battery as an easy option. Same story.
Further investigation reveals that the battery is discharging @ approx 2A when everything is switched off. With one exception, pulling fuses did not affect the current drain.
When I pulled S1 PARC Shunt the current dropped to about 20mA (but measuring this low level with the kit I was using is rather inaccurate).
After playing for a while, it eventualy workd as (I think) it should and I managed to log the current drain over time. Results (I could put the graph up if you think it might help):
At switch off 2.5A for 5 seconds, then 1.9A for about 40 secs, then 1 A for 10 secs them a few mA.....All good.
I havn't managed to repeat this, and still have about 2A drain on the battery.

So:
1. What does the PARC shunt suppose to switch off? (I notice that the battery dosn't charge if the engine is run with the PARC shunt removed).
2. URL for a circuit diagram for this car?
3. What do you recomend I look for next?

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MrBSI
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:49 pm Up
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Your playing with a digital CAN VAN multiplex electrical system, you shouldnt pull fuses with the system live!

At best you can crash the BSI software & at worse you can kill the BSI unit making the car unusable.

The BSI unit should go to sleep after 3 minutes once the car is locked so there should then be hardly any current flowing.

Standard factory radio fitted?

You checked the boot lamp is not stuck on?

DILLIGAF
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nelson1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:14 pm Up
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Thanks MrBSI
Standard radio, and I locked a kid that was afraid of the dark, in the boot. Kid screamed. I have experience with CAN busses but not in cars, no more live fuse pulling (the fault is neither better or worse so don't think I have done anything too drastic).
BSI? What does it do? I've read posts on this, but could not find the famous reset procedure (link anyone?)
So unashamed bump:
1. What does the PARC shunt suppose to switch off?
2. URL for a circuit diagram for this car?
3. What do you recomend I look for next?

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nelson1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:46 pm Up
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OK, found the reset procedure here and followed it.

I monitored the current drain from the battery and after two tests, the current drops to a few mA in about 90 seconds.

If this is shown to be repeatable, resetting the BSI (still don't know what this is) seems to have cured the problem. As we got the vehicle with the fault and have changed the battery (where the procedure is a little more involved that disconnect/change re-connect), it is possible that this might be the solution....

BUT....I notice (and wife says it has been like this all the time) the central locking is not working on the off-side doors. Bearing in mind what MrBSI said about the CAN bus, I may have an issue with the central locking that is screwing up the BSI!!

What do you think?

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MrBSI
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:22 pm Up
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The door lock motors are a known weak point on the 206.

There are 2 different types:

Normal central locking type & deadlocking type, there not interchangeable so make sure you get the correct one for your car!

DILLIGAF
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Mounty
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:38 pm Up
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Was going to fit one of these www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121...1439.l2649 to my GTi, as stands for long periods without any use. Would it damage anything on the electrics?
2001 206 Gti - Original & Unmolested
1994 Renault 5 - Production Car Trials
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V9977
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:43 pm Up
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Mounty wrote:
Was going to fit one of these www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121...1439.l2649 to my GTi, as stands for long periods without any use. Would it damage anything on the electrics?

There's already a quick-release terminal on the battery positive on 206.
Make sure you shut-down properly the BSI every time if it's multiplexed though.

1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue

Repair safely - Drive safely
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nelson1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:44 pm Up
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Equipment used:
Fluke 289 logging multimeter
HEME PR30 hall effect current clamp

Graph below plots the current drain from the battery from running engine to ignition off/key out/door shut.

You can see that the system switches various things off in sequence (ie at 30secs, 35 secs, 93 secs, 105 secs and most stuff is off by 110seconds after switch off)

Anyone know what these thing are? (CAN bus address and function would be handy)


Sad Beeing a newbie I havn't worked out how to upload the graph...help!
OK, I see I cannot upload straight to the forum, but need a web album, and can't be bothered to go down that route so if anyone wants a copy of the graph pm or email me...

V9977 has kindly put the graph up. Thanks


Last edited by nelson1 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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nelson1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:49 pm Up
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Mounty, if you are ging to let it stand for ages, read this discription of the PARC shunt function.
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Mounty
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:05 pm Up
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@ V9977 - No quick release terminal on mine but its not really a quick release item but a battery saver.
Is the BSI shutdown you mention the same as the shutdown procedure used when changing battery?

@ Nelson1 - Cheers for that, never knew it existed

2001 206 Gti - Original & Unmolested
1994 Renault 5 - Production Car Trials
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V9977
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:09 pm Up
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Mounty wrote:
@ V9977 - No quick release terminal on mine but its not really a quick release item but a battery saver.
Is the BSI shutdown you mention the same as the shutdown procedure used when changing battery?

Yes and PM'd for the graph because you have a Fluke meter.

1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue

Repair safely - Drive safely
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Mounty
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:11 pm Up
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Cheers for pm but Nelson1 has the graph not me
2001 206 Gti - Original & Unmolested
1994 Renault 5 - Production Car Trials
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V9977
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:15 pm Up
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Mounty wrote:
Cheers for pm but Nelson1 has the graph not me

Oops. Sorry about that. Smile

PM'd nelson1 now..

Here it is:

 

1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue

Repair safely - Drive safely
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nelson1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:38 pm Up
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Nice one V9977, thankyou. Very Happy

I think this is how it should be (the almost zero quiescent state may be inaccurate and could be just the zero offset of the current clamp).

If it goes wrong again, I’ll post the erroneous graph (with V9977’s help if he is willing).


Last edited by nelson1 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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V9977
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:43 pm Up
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Note the graph should be read upside down because that shows -ve amps and the plot should be going down over time, not up.
1.4i, 2001, 3-door, China Blue

Repair safely - Drive safely
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